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#26 2007-05-12 21:59:53

beeloba
Member
From: Lorient - France
Registered: 2006-08-18
Posts: 2514

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

Au fait Alex, j'ai un doute, j'ai cru comprendre que les 'erreurs' de blending venait du fait qu'un blender de type multiband avait été utilisé, à cause du temps de calcul qu'aurait pris smartblend, ce qui explique, entre-autre, pourquoi le ciel est peu harmonisé…
C'est ça, ou c'est du à autre chose ?
Je me doute aussi que le placement d'image, à la main, n'a pas arrangé les chose.
C'est dommage, car c'est le ciel qui saute le plus aux yeux.
Enfin, ça reste une prouesse…

Edit:

steve wrote:

I can't understand the messages in French. Could you please post them to the sections for French?

http://www.autopano.net/images/drapeau-en.png
Hey… Steve, be fair please, this was only a small question to Alex.
English is not my first language, and after making some efforts in talking english, i felt i could ask that in French…

BTW: there is no French section in 'Announcements'

Here is a better online translator, that still makes funny grammar - As I do -
http://translation2.paralink.com/

Last edited by beeloba (2007-05-13 14:50:03)

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#27 2007-05-13 08:38:04

steve
Member
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 70

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

I can't understand the messages in French. Could you please post them to the sections for French?

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#28 2007-05-13 09:23:08

GURL
Member
From: Grenoble
Registered: 2005-12-06
Posts: 1935
Website

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

Question about the (fuzzy) foreground: I believe that including the building roof, the water tank, etc, is intentional (the result is the view don't looks like an aerial view) but wonder whether the author would be more happy if this foreground was crisp or just don't care...

Note: that an artist is experimenting with high-resolution mosaics is the main point for me, not the gigapixels contest!

Last edited by GURL (2007-05-13 09:31:13)

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#29 2007-05-13 11:07:11

AlexandreJ
Absolute beginner
From: Challes les eaux, France
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 3584
Website

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

To answer to beeloba.
Yes, we used the multiband blender. Smartblend for the moment cannot managed such a giant picture (perhaps it can, but we just didn't try it yet).
For color correction in the sky. We used a mono-transfert anchor type with many hard anchor located all over the panorama. That's why such part in the sky are not so good in color correction. Of course a correct blender on the sky would have improved results too.
It's still really experimental and managing to stitch the picture was already a huge challenge : number of pictures, how to manage out of focus pictures, optimization issues, color correction algorithms to improve, 64bits, etc. Just those issues give us a lot of work.

One note about manual placement of picture : 2054 pictures, 1400 have real link only. So we had 600 pictures etiher beeing sky, or out of focus. That was an huge issue. We could not move them all one by one. So we designed this "guess unlinked picture location" which is a clever algorithm that guess in fact how the photograph was talking pictures ... by row /column, how much angle, etc. Then it uses this knowledge to move unlinked picture to a not so bad location. After applying this method, just 15 pictures have to really manually located by hand (instead of 600 ...).

The sky still have visible seems mostly not because the pictures are not well located, but because of the motion of clouds. Shooting was done from left to right, column by column (first top, down, second down to top, etc). So between 2 columns, around 40 pictures can separate two neightboors sky pictures. that's a lot of time. The day of shooting, clouds seem to have a high motion unfortunately.

For the next one (if any), we will concentrate on rendering and related algorithms like smartblend.

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#30 2007-05-13 20:13:08

gerardm
Member
From: NYC
Registered: 2006-08-29
Posts: 73
Website

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

Hi Gurl,

If you look at the picture of the camera, there is a 30lb counter weight to compensate for
the lens position.  The small movement between shot creates ALOT of vibration.  The
pixorb's stepping motors had to be adjusted to accelerate and decelerate so the vibration
was minimized.

Diffraction is a big issue when shooting with a telephoto lens.  Although the D2x is 12mp, it has a very small and sensitive sensor.  Diffraction is an issue above f11.  A choice was made to prefer the long reach of the lens, hence the softness of the foreground.  A telephoto lens also collapses space.  If you look under the water tower to the building behind it there is alot of space in the scene due to the softness and the crispness dispayed against each other.

Of cource a constant Af system to focus on everything all the time is a logical next step with some help from APP..(if photorealism is the goal)

What things look like (good or bad) are expectations derived from taste and experience.  Something like hypervision is a new experience. That's why I'm doing this.  I think the blurring may be more understood, when the printed image arrives.  It may optically act as a foil with one's peripheral vision.  Much like the composition in Flemish landscape painting, though they also used shadow to force the eye to light.  When posting a 77' x 13' image on the web, one must understand the method of delivery is a personal one and is experienced on a screen.  I tend to think of zoomify as a Chinese scroll painting.  One was never supposed to unroll the whole thing to examine, only roll and unroll moments forward or backward in time like film- David Hockney

I appreciate the thoughts and suggestions.  There will be more to come, with more experiments!  When 1.4 arrives, the whole process will not take 8 months, but one week.  The Harlem website was a special event.

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#31 2007-05-13 20:15:04

hankkarl
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2006-02-21
Posts: 1137
Website

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

The picture location "guessing" is a great idea!  Will this be in 1.4?

How did you set the camera (AF?  Aperture priority or manual?  )

Did you try stitching the detailed shots over a wide angle shot?  Would that hurt or help the stitching?

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#33 2007-05-14 10:06:15

Tony H
Member
From: Bougnat
Registered: 2006-09-29
Posts: 414
Website

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

For Alexandre and only if you accept, can you tell us something about statistics of enter in APP website....

Sans ambages, as tu noté une très nette envolée de visites sur le site d'APP suite à ce tour du monde de cette superbe prestation....


The best is in you, so the best is in me... Believe in me, I will believe in you.

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#34 2007-05-14 10:21:05

AlexandreJ
Absolute beginner
From: Challes les eaux, France
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 3584
Website

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

Yes, there were of course an influence on APP website stats. For the first day, 3x, second day 2x. Now, it's quite over.

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#35 2007-05-14 10:45:39

Tony H
Member
From: Bougnat
Registered: 2006-09-29
Posts: 414
Website

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

Thanks! I thought more...


The best is in you, so the best is in me... Believe in me, I will believe in you.

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#36 2007-05-14 17:58:11

foundation
Member
Registered: 2007-01-15
Posts: 122

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

by the way, you can save to psb, open it in photoshop cs3 and export to zoomify (new is cs3)

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#37 2007-05-14 18:02:06

taf
Moderator
From: Paaaaaaris !
Registered: 2005-12-20
Posts: 1895
Website

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

AlexandreJ wrote:

Yes, there were of course an influence on APP website stats. For the first day, 3x, second day 2x. Now, it's quite over.

And on the licence bought ? lol


Look. There's a rhythmic ceremonial ritual coming up !

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#38 2007-05-14 18:09:15

AlexandreJ
Absolute beginner
From: Challes les eaux, France
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 3584
Website

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

foundation wrote:

by the way, you can save to psb, open it in photoshop cs3 and export to zoomify (new is cs3)

We tried that, but didn't work, the exported part was corrupted.

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#39 2007-05-15 16:16:18

JohnM
Member
Registered: 2006-10-31
Posts: 147

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

Alexandre:

On huge stitches like this, doess APP, handle images of different size ? The need for detail is less in sky and water, and people probably dont zoom in on details in sky/water. Is it possible to stitch 1000 300mm shots with 100 100mm shots ?

Does APP handle raw as well as jpg ( or better ) ?

Is it ( theoretically ) possible stitch a 1000 image pano, by first stitching 4 parts of 250 ( + overlap ) and the the 4 parts ?

Is it  ( theoretically ) possible to blend a gigapano like this with parts of the gigapano manually corrected i ps ( or similar ) ?

John

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#40 2007-05-15 19:51:48

GURL
Member
From: Grenoble
Registered: 2005-12-06
Posts: 1935
Website

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com

JohnM wrote:

Is it ( theoretically ) possible stitch a 1000 image pano, by first stitching 4 parts of 250 ( + overlap ) and the the 4 parts ?

Something possible is to optimize the whole pano (using all source images), then to make some adjustments in the panorama editor if needed but to make several partial stitchs (several Render actions). The Layers Editor could be used for that.

It's certainly possible to optimize and render subsets of source images but this is much more difficult. For rectilinear panos each part must be stitched using exactly the same location for Center Point and this would be very difficult. For cylindrical or equirectangular panos the horizon (the horizontal gray line shown in the panorama editor) being at the same height would be enough: not easy but certainly easier...

Using PS to assemble the parts into the final pano should work ...but would be very slow when dealing with those very large files.

When using PanoTools to stitch no more than 200 shots (some year ago!) I had to use partial stitchs for cylindrical panos. PanoTools can stitch cylindrical source images but I probably used PS for the final step.

Using the Layers Editor could be the easiest way to use Smartblend to blend the sky of Harlem.

Last edited by GURL (2007-05-15 19:53:57)

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#41 2007-09-11 16:07:17

[bo]
community overseer
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2006-05-05
Posts: 1092

Re: Harlem-13-Gigapixels.com


Some of my panoramas, posted in the Autopano Pro flickr group.

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